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+--- Thread: Panamint Springs - Do the springs exist? (/showthread.php?tid=25766)
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RE: Panamint Springs - Do the springs exist? - Sparky of SoCal - 2020-11-10
Quick thought, that map that Candace posted says a lot. It is from 1900 era nothing noted. I think if there was a well or spring at the current location and an earthquake stopped the flow the flow there would be oodles of information. There is a book floating around about all kinds of facts and interesting things in DV. I think there would be a reference somewhere. I thinkGowerGulch42 is on to something. Possibly there was something going on at the toll road using water from the springs on the map. Pavement goes down and that is where the money is at. Build something there utilizing water from Darwin Wash like today. Applaud the guys at Panamint Springs for the tale, keeping in the Walter Scott tradition. Just my 2 cents.
RE: Panamint Springs - Do the springs exist? - David_Bricker - 2020-11-13
Sorry, I just saw this thread.
There are no springs at PSR. I really don't think there ever was. The original resort was built in 1935 to serve the new road coming from Olancha to Stovepipe Wells. At the time the resort was built, the pipeline from Darwin Falls was installed. This is a deeded water supply, and is still today PSR's only water supply. Somewhere, I have copies of the original water rights paperwork.
The pelton wheel is mentioned in the original water rights paperwork, and it was powered from the waterline from Darwin Wash. So, the staff person at the general store was partially correct.
David Bricker / SYR
(2020-11-09, 02:44 PM)DeathValleyDazed Wrote: I've actually rented a Farabee Jeep and driven the old road from Darwin Falls parking, south and up that steep hill and into Darwin Canyon, stopping at China Garden and the old well house before driving almost due East to Darwin. This route is what I'm guessing was the old toll road?
Yes, the road you drove from Highway 190 to Darwin is the old Darwin Toll road. It significantly predates Highway 190, and for that matter, PSR. In some places, especially near the stairsteps about 1 mile past the Falls parking area, you will still find some of the original pavement. The toll road of course, did not go to China Gardens, but continued through the sand wash, past the old Darwin pump house, and up the hill on pavement into the town of Darwin.
David Bricker / SYR
RE: Panamint Springs - Do the springs exist? - DeathValleyDazed - 2020-11-15
(2020-11-13, 12:58 AM)David_Bricker Wrote: The pelton wheel is mentioned in the original water rights paperwork, and it was powered from the waterline from Darwin Wash. So, the staff person at the general store was partially correct.
Thanks David for settling things here about the "springs" or should I say the lack thereof.
I found some more fascinating detail about the PSR Pelton Wheel from Google Books Search. I was actually alive one year before the wheel license expired.
http://salamandersociety.com/deathvalley/PSR-Pelton-Wheel-1953.png
Maybe the folks at PSR got the idea for the Pelton Wheel from Albert Johnson over at Scotty's Castle?
"Not only is this Spanish-influenced mansion seemingly out of place in the high desert, but it's design seemingly pushed the technological limits of the 1920s. Not only did Albert Johnson see that there was a solar heating system at work, but he also had a Pelton water wheel turbine installed to generate electricity for the place. Too, an evaporative cooling system employed indoor waterfalls and even wet burlap to keep things inside the castle relatively cool on those 100-degree summer days."
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2008/12/musings-death-valley-national-park
Or from the Skidoo engineers?
Interestingly enough (for a place as dry as Death Valley the stamp mill was water powered. Water (for mill and town) was piped down from Birch springs high in the Panamint Mountains about twenty miles away (and 2,000 feet higher). The water drove a Pelton wheel which ran the machinery and stamps. Later, a gas engine was added to help power the mill when the spring was running low."
I found an informative video about "The Pelton Wheel" which you say powered Panamint Springs for some time. I assume they used this until the overhead power lines were installed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oe8YAJ9eSQ
And thanks again David for clarity on the Old Toll Road which prompted me to make a short video about it. I've to drive that historic road again but take much more time to explore the area instead of hurrying to return the rental jeep.
RE: Panamint Springs - Do the springs exist? - David_Bricker - 2020-11-15
(2020-11-15, 07:49 PM)DeathValleyDazed Wrote: I found an informative video about "The Pelton Wheel" which you say powered Panamint Springs for some time. I assume they used this until the overhead power lines were installed.
And thanks again David for clarity on the Old Toll Road which prompted me to make a short video about it. I've to drive that historic road again but take much more time to explore the area instead of hurrying to return the rental jeep.
Overhead power lines? At PSR? Bwahahahahaha!
PSR is very much off grid. I don't know when the pelton wheel went out of service; certainly before my time. The pelton wheel, or at least one of them, was installed and inspected in 1944. It was a 12" unit, rated at about 5 KW. PSR was built in 1937. I'm not sure if there was an earlier form of electrical generation. Interestingly, the 1944 system describes having a "considerable" number of batteries, in order to supply the additional demand of the lights at night. Clearly, insufficient to keep the beer coolers running.Over the years, there have been a variety of generators. Since the Cassells purchased the property in 2006, the electricity has been much more stable. Up until last year, the latest primary generator was a 75KW John Deere diesel, with a variety of units as backup, from 50KW to 100KW. Last year, a new system was installed with a matched paid of new diesels. Cleaner burning, load balancing, auto-cutover, and the ability to shut down cylinders during periods of lower demand.
A few years ago, PSR looked into the potential of extending power from the mine in Panamint Valley. Not even counting the inevitable regulatory hurdles to run a power line across park land, the estimated cost for the poles was over $3 Million. Needless to say, that wasn't a solution. Solar has been looked at, but the battery storage is still a big challenge and cost.
The old Toll road isn't a bad drive. 4WD is certainly helpful. I rescued a kid out of there, at the stairsteps just past the Falls parking lot, who decided he could make it up there in his Chevy Corsica. Short answer; no, he couldn't. And yes, alcohol was involved in the kid's "adventure". Yet, back in 2007, my son Noah went to Darwin almost daily for the mail, driving a 1978 Dodge Polara (the Green monster). I certainly would never recommend someone trying the Toll road in a 2wd passenger car, as the stairsteps can be messy, as well as the deep sand.
Perhaps some day we can connect out there, and we can run some of the tougher roads that require 4WD.
David Bricker / SYR