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+--- Thread: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... (/showthread.php?tid=25841)
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - TacoLand - 2021-02-22
I've always been a fan of those Xterras and your setup sounds great for Death Valley. Do you still have it?
Cool photo ... wait, did you not only drive out solo, but at dusk as well? Yeehaw!
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - DeathValleyDazed - 2021-02-22
(2021-02-22, 12:18 AM)Candace66 Wrote: Ah yes, the road over Mengel Pass.Hey Candace66, I love your image with the composition and lighting in eye candy balance. Thanks for posting that.
I definitely wouldn't recommend a solo trip in a Farrabee Jeep.
BTW - At least five years ago I rented a jeep from Richard Farrabee himself when he was at the old gas station across from The Inn and told him of my plan to drive over Mengel Pass. He did not bat an eye or show any concern acting like it was just any other rental day. I never did attempt Mengel Pass from the east due to running out of time and only making it to Warm Springs where I turned around. (I'm still jonesing to climb Striped Butte!)
So how about a Farrabee Jeep east to west over Mengel. The videos I've seen of people going up and over west to east up over look intimidating. I don't like or enjoy technical jeeping. Washboards, ruts and some rocks are ok but bouldering and scraping bottom is for other more dedicated folks.
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - Kauri - 2021-02-22
(2021-02-22, 02:25 PM)DeathValleyDazed Wrote: BTW - At least five years ago I rented a jeep from Richard Farrabee himself when he was at the old gas station across from The Inn and told him of my plan to drive over Mengel Pass. He did not bat an eye or show any concern acting like it was just any other rental day. I never did attempt Mengel Pass from the east due to running out of time and only making it to Warm Springs where I turned around. (I'm still jonesing to climb Striped Butte!)
That's interesting... About 8 years ago my parents rented a Jeep from Mr. Farabee himself, with plans to drive Dedeckera Canyon. He was very concerned about us attempting that route, and kept trying to convince us to go to the Racetrack, Titus Canyon, etc. (locations which we were already very familiar with). And I thought Mengel Pass was at least as difficult as Dedeckera Canyon? (We ended up not driving Dedeckera; the canyon apparently had less gravel that year so the steps were beyond our skills then.)
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - GowerGulch42 - 2021-02-22
The problem with Dedeckera isn't the technical challenge, in my experience (10 years old now) it really wasn't a difficult road so much as it was LONG and ROUGH and REMOTE. We carried gas cans and we used all of our gas going that way, more to be safe than anything else. I would also spend my efforts to dissuade people from driving that way if they didn't know EXACTLY what they were getting in to. If you get into trouble up there, it could be a long wait or walk.
For Mengel, it's just so chewed up that any way you do it will be slow and laborious. Unless you are deeply familiar with locking differentials, sway bars, low-range gearboxes, it won't be fun and will probably damage the road even more. The big holes and steps are the result of vehicles without locking differentials or grippy tires spinning their wheels on the way up. Go to Stripped Butte, skip Goler Canyon.
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - TacoLand - 2021-02-22
I wonder how Farabee's handles stuff like snapped tie rod ends, damage to body panels, returning it two days late because you got a flat in BFE and didn't know how to use a Hi-Lift Jack but did manage to lose a few teeth trying to figure it out ....
Really only imagined that families rented them to visit the Racetrack, cruise through Titus, etc.
Dazed – Not to gatekeep, but based upon your description of what you do & don't like to do in a Jeep I would say Mengel is not for you (no matter which direction). I've only done Mengel west to east, but in my head I always thought it'd be easier going the other way. I just asked my girlfriend though and she thinks it'd be more difficult to go east to west. She's the smarter one and has a better memory, so I'm inclined to say either way is going to be an experience.
Kauri – I've always been under the impression that Mengel is a lot more difficult that Dedeckera, but have yet to travel past the stone steps. Looking forward to checking that one off my list this next trip.
Looks like Gower beat me to it! Thanks for the info on Dedeckera, checks out with what I'm planning on running into ... maybe not looking forward to how long of a day driving it'll be from Hidden Dunes through Dedeckera, up Lippincott, and over to White Top Mountain.
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - David_Bricker - 2021-02-22
I talked at length with Mr. Farabee when he first came to DV. At that time, he was debating whether to bring any Rubicons from Colorado, or just the standard Wranglers. For those of you not familiar, a Jeep Rubicon is a Wrangler, but equipped from the factory with front and rear locking differentials (happy buttons), disconnecting front sway bar, 4:1 low range transfer case and 32" tires. Farabee outfits his standard Wranglers with 32" tires, skid plates, and all the Jeeps have a SPOT device.
Fast forward a few years, and I stopped by and talked to him. He had brought in Rubicons, but it turns out, as Tacoland imagined, the vast majority of his customers wanted the Jeep "experience", and to drive on dirt roads, like Titus Canyon. So, the Rubis went back to Colorado. I haven't come through Furnace Creek in a few years, so not sure what the current inventory looks like. If he has Rubis, it would certainly be worth the money over the standard Wrangler.
Farabee's has had one of their rigs flop at Chicken Rock. I'm not sure what he does. You do have the option for insurance coverage, which includes off road damage, but I'm not sure if you flopped it. For mechanical failures, my understanding is they would send a replacement Jeep, and then deal with getting the injured one back to base. To the best of my knowledge, he does not have a contract with Millers out of Lone Pine for towing and recovery.
Dedeckera Canyon, in my mind, is more remote and certainly less traveled than Goler Wash / Mengals. Difficulty depends on the year. Dedeckera's stairsteps can be tough on a long wheelbase rig, especially if the sand is washed out of the area. Goler has also changed radically over the years, from near inaccessible in the 1970s to a freeway in the 1990s and pretty much anything in between. To me, Mengals has remained relatively constant, though I would agree unlocked rigs have torn it up more in the past few years. I think it's much easier going west to east, given gravity is on your side for the toughest part. I've run a number of different vehicles in both directions. The hardest to accomplish was my son's '04 Ram 2500, street tires, limited slip in the rear, long wheelbase. Running east to west, the rock garden adjusted one of his entry steps. They hung too low anyway; the V-notch at Swansea took out the matching one on the other side. It took some spotting to get a good line, but we made it up with minimal wheel spin.
Part of my problem these days is owning a vehicle that is perhaps a bit overbuilt for the area, since almost nothing seems difficult anymore. My XJ, is on 35s, locked front and rear, big axles, caged, winch, air, etc. I also want to err on the side of caution when posting in a public forum, and I don't know the capabilities of the individual or of their vehicle. I've seen so many times when a good driver can go places with a much less capable rig. As a side conversation, I'd be more inclined to share more info. I just don't want people to make assumptions based on something I've posted. I've also seen too many times when people have gotten themselves in trouble overestimating their abilities or their vehicle's.
David Bricker / SYR
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - DeathValleyDazed - 2021-02-22
(2021-02-22, 07:16 PM)David_Bricker Wrote: I've also seen too many times when people have gotten themselves in trouble overestimating their abilities or their vehicle's.
Hey fellow forum members, thanks for all of the great advice and technicals. I'm taking your advice to heart and am abandoning crossing Mengel Pass in a vehicle. I may approach from both sides until it gets technical and then hike along the route and explore what's away from the road but generally parallel. I've used jeep rentals as a means to get my feet out to where I can walk. LOL
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - David_Bricker - 2021-02-22
I may also mention that the Panamint Valley / Goler Wash / Mengal Pass / Striped Butte Valley / Warm Springs / Death Valley route is a fantastic loop, especially if you overnight somewhere in Butte Valley. I've done the loop from PSR to PSR in one day, but it's a looooonnnngggg day. Leaving by 8:00 am, and getting back after the restaurant is (officially) closed. But overnighting is Butte Valley is very nice. My son and I did it a few years ago, during a spring bloom. Arrived at Stella's before dark, had time for making a very nice dinner (we packed heavy), saw lots of wildflowers, and went out via Goler the next day. Back to PSR in plenty of time for dinner, taking our time, visiting with Rock at Ballarat, etc.
David Bricker / SYR
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - TacoLand - 2021-02-23
Thanks for all the info, David.
RE: Seeking Input: Stuck in Butte Valley for two days ... - Candace66 - 2021-02-23
(2021-02-22, 01:46 AM)TacoLand Wrote: I've always been a fan of those Xterras and your setup sounds great for Death Valley. Do you still have it?
Cool photo ... wait, did you not only drive out solo, but at dusk as well? Yeehaw!
Nope, it went back to Nissan under the Cali Lemon Law!! And I'm now on my second vehicle since the Xterra.
Yes, as you can see, it was near sunset when I reached Mengel Pass. Definitely completely dark well before I got to the PV.
(2021-02-22, 07:16 PM)David_Bricker Wrote: ...a Jeep Rubicon is a Wrangler, but equipped from the factory with front and rear locking differentials (happy buttons), disconnecting front sway bar, 4:1 low range transfer case and 32" tires.
While I don't miss putting the Heep in the shop regularly, I do miss some of those Rubi capabilities. But I knew going in that the SR5 4Runner was a step down.
TBH I almost never actually used the lockers. Though I did engage them occasionally just to make sure they were still functional. But the front sway bar disconnect was great for keeping better wheel contact on eroded roads. And the ultra low range was great too, I could just ease it down the steepest descents with no braking.
Off-topic, I chuckled when you mentioned the V-notch at Swansea. I was a bit underinformed about the road when I drove the loop in 2015, exiting via Swansea. I was in the upgraded Xterra so I made it through unscathed, but it was...exciting. According to my notes from that day, there's a bypass around that section, is that correct?
I drove past this sign facing the other direction shortly after that stretch. They're not kidding!
![[Image: 50973603617_f881a7af29_c.jpg]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50973603617_f881a7af29_c.jpg)
IMGP7151 by Candace66, on Flickr