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+--- Thread: How to reach DV administration? (/showthread.php?tid=26291)
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RE: How to reach DV administration? - John Morrow - 2024-01-29
(2024-01-29, 12:03 PM)AlanMcR Wrote:(2024-01-29, 08:05 AM)John Morrow Wrote:(2024-01-24, 11:16 PM)AlanMcR Wrote: Thanks.
What a terrible system.
And the plan appears to be to move to recreation.gov. Even worse, in my opinion.
Is that accurate, I am unaware of the move to Rec.gov? In early December I used the present system of day of walking in to the VC for the free permit. I found I am generally supportive of the system. The front desk is well prepared and trained with binders holding the permits complete with files for each campsite. The past few autumns that I've searched for sites, both of these particular roads were packed with campers; and traffic of folks searching continued through the night. For a long time the "mile from pavement" rule was little known. Not anymore. After seeing enough unburied poop and TP in the common dispersed sites, and the clusterf__k of folks driving 1.1 miles and cramming in, I saw the writing on the wall that NPS had to corral it.
If you call the VC they may be able to send you a form that is "Comments to the Superintendent". This particular superintendent seems genuinely attentive to public concerns and thoughts. I hope it doesn't get overused to the point where he does not have the capacity to respond directly.
John
Walk in is great if you happen to be in Furnace creek between 9-5. Not so helpful when you are pulling into the park long after dark.
The move to Rec.gov was discussed by the ranger I was talking to on my second attempt to get a permit. I pointed out that the permits are cheap enough that people will just book several different days. Then leave them booked. Frankly, there is no way to book, or release reservations from the park anyway. Thus preventing anyone else from camping the empty spots.
I've been roaming this park for >50 years, mostly in the back country. I have yet to see a ranger anywhere but a paved road. I didn't worry about getting cited because I treated the park well. Heck, I come back from each trip with a bag full of other people's trash. My friends and I even refilled Marble Bath. Now, the designated campsite rule makes it such that citations are issued for simply being parked.
Rec.gov surprises me because they seem so keen on making sure they give the 10 Principles of LNT spiel before they hand you the permit. And "day of only" reduces any chance of wasted permits due to future no-shows. Plus, since it is day of, once you get the permit you get to choose the length of stay. No one is able to advance book. Agreed, with Rec.gov sites will go unoccupied with no shows.
I am curious to know what the draw is for you to be any where near Furnace Creek on a late night entry? Echo junction can't be more than 4 miles from the VC and HITW 5 miles. Just seems like a place you'd avoid for the hundreds of easy camping opportunities 1 mile from pavement elsewhere.
Perhaps early Dec. is a low vis month and the program still unknown but 2/3 of Echo sites went empty; and Sites 1 and 2 were the only ones taken on HITW when I walked in at 15:45. I gambled and only did one night so I didn't leave my site unoccupied on night 2. I can never make decisions in advance.... At the end of my hike on the day between I walked in and easily got a permit for the 2nd night. I had HITW 3 on night 1 and HITW 4 on night two. The day in between I drove up to the end of Echo and climbed Shwaub. The last Echo site is just after teh narrows. So I could have easily stayed at the Upper TH after my hike (seems beyond the designated area and regular rules apply) but I had no reason to stay becasue I wasn't hiking up there the next day.
If you need to be in the area and arrive after hours why not just stay at Slabby Acres? Get your permit the next morning? I don't think Greenwater is part of the program.
RE: How to reach DV administration? - Beardilocks - 2024-01-29
Greenwater was added to the program this year. Whole road of Greenwater. No assigned sites, just a permit for any existing site on the road.
I understand that for the crowd that wants to do Dante for sunrise or sunset. But it’s very problematic for the south end of the road. I think it should only be to the old townsite or the “pass”. Damn long drive in to the VC if you’re staying on the south end.
The biggest issue for me with adding the free permits to rec.gov is there’s a $8 “processing” fee for anything and everything done there. Which is bloody highway robbery for many reasons. Like no refunds on the $8 for lottery permits that you don’t win. Someone is making bank on that.
RE: How to reach DV administration? - John Morrow - 2024-01-29
(2024-01-29, 05:08 PM)Beardilocks Wrote: I understand that for the crowd that wants to do Dante for sunrise or sunset. But it’s very problematic for the south end of the road. I think it should only be to the old townsite or the “pass”. Damn long drive in to the VC if you’re staying on the south end.
Yeah, that really doesn't make sense beyond those landmarks. That's certainly worthy of a comment! With a rationale in the reply.
I'm miffed at the Rec.gov thing. I hope that simply doesn't happen.
RE: How to reach DV administration? - MojaveGeek - 2024-01-30
When driving north in Greenwater, you can tell you're approaching the pavement when you can see all the people camping at that end of the road. The rest of the road is pretty much empty - I've seen a party or two out there but not many. But if the designated areas ended, say, 3 miles from the pavement, wouldn't everyone just move that much further south?
I love Greenwater because it feels pretty wild and open, though the main road is still driveable in a sedan. It feels like a shame to get it regulated as well. And I'm really having problems getting around the issues of the places one would ordinarily park, e.g. for Pothole Canyon in the Cottonwoods or the Slit canyon, being turned into designated sites and thus not available for day use.