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+--- Thread: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning (/showthread.php?tid=26250)
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - netllama - 2023-10-19
(2023-10-19, 06:01 PM)MojaveGeek Wrote: This is obviously Saline-centric info, but if the park is working there, it is working elsewhere I would imagine Repairing the Lippencott road? Never would have expected that. In that report when it says the road the the Racetrack, and then Teakettle, I'm guess is meant the Hunter Mtn route to the Racetrack Valley, and then down the valley past Teakettle and Ubehebe, maybe? With all this fresh grading, things could be really good on back country roads - some of these have probably not been maintained in years. I don't know how often the Racetrack Valley road gets graded, but conditions vary so much I would guess only from time to time.
Thanks for the update!
The Racetrack Valley road used to get graded at least once, if not twice/year. It was definitely on the list of (quasi) maintained back country roads that got regular attention.
Now maintaining Lippencott (as the post mentioned) is completely unheard of. Makes me wonder if it was destroyed by the storm, or since they have the budget & equipment in the area anyway, they're digging into their buried list of "it would be nice if we had the money". I suspect that a lot of people are going to be fairly unhappy with this news though. Most of the people driving Lippencott, are there because its a challenging road, not in spite of it. Plus the risk that if they make the road easy, nut jobs in passenger cars are going to try to drive it as a short cut in/out of Saline Valley.
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - Beardilocks - 2023-10-20
(2023-10-19, 06:01 PM)MojaveGeek Wrote: This is obviously Saline-centric info, but if the park is working there, it is working elsewhere I would imagine Repairing the Lippencott road? Never would have expected that. In that report when it says the road the the Racetrack, and then Teakettle, I'm guess is meant the Hunter Mtn route to the Racetrack Valley, and then down the valley past Teakettle and Ubehebe, maybe? With all this fresh grading, things could be really good on back country roads - some of these have probably not been maintained in years. I don't know how often the Racetrack Valley road gets graded, but conditions vary so much I would guess only from time to time.
Thanks for the update!
Yeah, I snagged this from the Saline Valley Preservation group's site. They have been particularly vocal about getting the springs opened up ASAP and AFAIK this was an NPS response to their barrage of inquiries.
My gut feeling to the Lippencott repairs is either that it's been on their eventual to-do list for decades and as long as they're out there they may as well run a grader over it (as netllama suggests) or that they are trying to develop more routes in/out of Saline Valley. After having vehicles stuck in the snow on BOTH North & South Passes last year (both of which required air rescue) and the Saline Valley group's sheer determination to get out to the springs whether there are roads or not or 10ft of snow (there has in fact been quite a lot of visitation to the springs in the last few weeks despite the washed out road and closures), NPS might be thinking that they need a lower elevation route for getting folks in & out that's not quite as rough as Dedeckera. Just speculating.
I've read a lot of debate about Lippencott over the last few days since this came out. Even down to fears that mentioning the name of the road on the interwebs will massively increase traffic. It is a beloved gatekeeper for many. I don't think simply grading/repairing the road will have any effect whatsoever. Unless NPS themselves start advertising it as a route. NPS often describes the trip out to Racetrack itself as a harrowing experience. I don't think there are many folks that are going to plan a loop through Racetrack/Lippencott/Saline if they're not in a reasonable vehicle. But then you should probably never underestimate tourists.
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - DAW89446 - 2023-10-20
Why Lippincott is planned to be graded, posted on the Saline forum earlier:
Per Mike Reynolds ( DVNP superintendent) , "Lippincott is only because the rented dozer will be at racetrack within a week. They can only do 1 or 2 miles per day! If they cut down Lippincott it means we can fix bat rock road and then steel pass sooner. Otherwise nps has to wait for south pass to be passable by a truck to bring in a dozer. The road is GONE. I'm sorry it is taking along time. It's nothing like the storms we are used to in the past unless you've been here for decades!"
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - Beardilocks - 2023-10-21
(2023-10-20, 07:00 PM)DAW89446 Wrote: Why Lippincott is planned to be graded, posted on the Saline forum earlier:
Per Mike Reynolds ( DVNP superintendent) , "Lippincott is only because the rented dozer will be at racetrack within a week. They can only do 1 or 2 miles per day! If they cut down Lippincott it means we can fix bat rock road and then steel pass sooner. Otherwise nps has to wait for south pass to be passable by a truck to bring in a dozer. The road is GONE. I'm sorry it is taking along time. It's nothing like the storms we are used to in the past unless you've been here for decades!"
Awesome! Thanks for the info. That makes a lot of sense actually.
Appreciate that Mike is open for communication. I have seen several cases where he's willing to be the one talking and giving straight info.
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - John Morrow - 2023-10-22
Map on the DEVA NPS Website says Inyo County graded the Greenwater Valley Road on 10/16
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - John Morrow - 2023-10-22
Echo Canyon Road - NPS road crew used a dozer to do the first pass for repairs. We still need to re-establish the permitted roadside campsites and run a grader down the road before opening. Likely to open by late November.
Hole in the Wall Road - NPS road crew used a dozer to do the first pass for repairs. We still need to get re-establish the permitted roadside campsites and run a grader down the road before opening. Likely to open by late November.
Cottonwood Canyon & Marble Canyon Roads - NPS road crew used a dozer to do the first pass for repairs. We still need to get re-establish the permited roadside campsites and run a grader down the road before opening. Likely to open by early November.
North Highway - this will open sometime after February 2024. Work will be done by the permanent repairs contract.(Access to: Fall Canyon Trail, Old Stovepipe Wells, Lower Titus Canyon, Ubehebe Crater, Racetrack Road)
Daylight Pass Road & Mud Canyon Road- contractors will start by making temporary repairs. The road will likely reopen by mid-November, but will have gravel sections and a lowered speed limit. Then a second contract will be awarded to do permanent pavement replacement, which may include adding protection from future floods. That contract is likely to start in February or March 2024.
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - Beardilocks - 2023-10-23
Small update: Just noticed that Greenwater is open now, even though 178 remains closed in the park. Unsure if it's open outside of the park to 127. Hell, I'm not sure 127 is open there either. Lol.
-Greenwater Valley (aka Furnace Creek Wash Road) - access to Deadman Pass and Gold Valley. Use extreme caution on Gold Valley Road, which has not been repaired since it was damaged by flooding 8/23. There is a section which could tip over a stock 4x4 high clearance vehicle.
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - netllama - 2023-10-23
(2023-10-23, 09:29 AM)Beardilocks Wrote: -Greenwater Valley (aka Furnace Creek Wash Road) - access to Deadman Pass and Gold Valley. Use extreme caution on Gold Valley Road, which has not been repaired since it was damaged by flooding 8/23. There is a section which could tip over a stock 4x4 high clearance vehicle.
Damn, I wish there were more photos available of these road conditions. Its clear that NPS (and/or Caltrans) are surveying all these roads, and surely they are taking photos to document their condition. Yet they are being very stingy in sharing these photos, and I can't think of any good reason for the lack of transparency. Its not like this is a security issue, or some govt secret.
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - Brice - 2023-10-23
(2023-10-23, 09:47 AM)netllama Wrote:(2023-10-23, 09:29 AM)Beardilocks Wrote: -Greenwater Valley (aka Furnace Creek Wash Road) - access to Deadman Pass and Gold Valley. Use extreme caution on Gold Valley Road, which has not been repaired since it was damaged by flooding 8/23. There is a section which could tip over a stock 4x4 high clearance vehicle.
Damn, I wish there were more photos available of these road conditions. Its clear that NPS (and/or Caltrans) are surveying all these roads, and surely they are taking photos to document their condition. Yet they are being very stingy in sharing these photos, and I can't think of any good reason for the lack of transparency. Its not like this is a security issue, or some govt secret.
I went up Gold Valley last spring and I'm pretty sure I know the spot that's trouble. It was already off camber enough to make me take it really slow, though it wasn't the scariest tilt I've ever driven through.
RE: Death Valley CLOSED: Fall/Winter 23/24 Trip Planning - Beardilocks - 2023-10-23
It's been a few years since I was up Gold Valley, but even back then there was a couple of really off camber sections.
Odd that they would even mention it. That road sees very little traffic. And likely not helped by the couple that got stranded out there a few years ago.
netllama: A lot of the recon seems to have been by plane from the reports I've read. There are some shots of Saline Valley on their site of civilian flights over that valley, but I haven't seen anything from NPS.
I believe a number of the delays in reopening are due to them actually attempting some flood mitigation instead of just repaving.
I am curious why Titus is being delayed as long as it is. Obviously a lot fo roads need a lot of attention. But that was always a high-value attraction. Of course the same could be said about Scotty's castle and that will have been closed for a full DECADE before it finally opens up again.