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Question about camping - WayOutWest - 2023-02-08
Hi all, I was doing some research on Death Valley road conditions and found this forum. Lovely that there is a forum just for Death Valley!
Death Valley is one of my favorite places in the state, but unfortunately with all life's obligations I've not been able to get there as often as I'd like. In fact, other than a quick stop there a couple years ago, I haven't had a real trip there for 6 years! Well I have an opportunity to go in early March, so I am starting to plan the trip.
I like to camp outside of standard campgrounds when possible, but I only have a 2WD, and my experience in the past on Death Valley dirt roads reduced my likelihood to take chances there (stuck in sand once, flat tire another time). So, I tend to want to stick to well graded dirt roads without "issues" like "sharp rocks that can puncture tires." Given this limitation, and adding the damage to many Death Valley roads from the 2022 storms, noted on the Death Valley park site, I am wondering if I'll be able to find any camping opportunities other than the designated campsites.
What has others' recent experience been, particularly if you also are limited by having 2WD?
If I do need to stick to standard campgrounds, is it likely I'll find spots open? Eg at Stove Pipe Wells, Furnace Creek, Sunset, Texas Spring campgrounds?
RE: Question about camping - John Morrow - 2023-02-08
(2023-02-08, 12:29 AM)WayOutWest Wrote: Hi all, I was doing some research on Death Valley road conditions and found this forum. Lovely that there is a forum just for Death Valley!
Death Valley is one of my favorite places in the state, but unfortunately with all life's obligations I've not been able to get there as often as I'd like. In fact, other than a quick stop there a couple years ago, I haven't had a real trip there for 6 years! Well I have an opportunity to go in early March, so I am starting to plan the trip.
I like to camp outside of standard campgrounds when possible, but I only have a 2WD, and my experience in the past on Death Valley dirt roads reduced my likelihood to take chances there (stuck in sand once, flat tire another time). So, I tend to want to stick to well graded dirt roads without "issues" like "sharp rocks that can puncture tires." Given this limitation, and adding the damage to many Death Valley roads from the 2022 storms, noted on the Death Valley park site, I am wondering if I'll be able to find any camping opportunities other than the designated campsites.
What has others' recent experience been, particularly if you also are limited by having 2WD?
If I do need to stick to standard campgrounds, is it likely I'll find spots open? Eg at Stove Pipe Wells, Furnace Creek, Sunset, Texas Spring campgrounds?
For years I toured the SW with a Honda Civic. I empathize with your situation.
If you don't have this map, you need it.
https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/upload/508-Backcountry-and-Wilderness-Access-map_.pdf
You are correct, that options are limited.
Road 21 on the map is graded by the county known as "Furnace Creek" or Greenwater Road. Usually all vehicles have access. Small pullouts are evident. Saratoga Spring and Jubilee Pass area spurs can at times be passable. Sometimes I actually scouted on foot first when a road is incised single vehicle width so I had a turnaround option.
Saline Valley Rd to Lee Flat and Panamint Dunes (floods will incise the wash crossings until traffic smooths them out) too, can be OK
Emigrant Campground is free, small and tent only. Safe to leave camp set up and leave for the day. All campgrounds can be loud due to close tent footprints and lack of cover.
Conditions change but often times one can get past the one mile restriction zone on many of the roads on the map that are solid lines with the double line, "High Clearance 2WD". Keep from high centering by running the tires over the high rocks and berms.
RE: Question about camping - MojaveGeek - 2023-02-08
Exploring DV with 2WD is fun, done it for years, some white knuckle moments, and as you know you have to drive with care and be prepared.
I suspect you can find the status of the NPS campgrounds which take reservations at recreation.gov. The large one at SPW is not NPS, but they have a web site (shared with the hotel). There is also a small NPS campground there. Emigrant and Wildrose (higher, colder) are free and I think first come, first served. Emigrant can be noisy from the highwy.
For dispersed camping, both Hole in Wall and Echo Canyon roads, probably fine in the lower sections for 2wd (I've done it, don't know about conditions at the moment), now have a permit system. It is new, and I don't know how you get a permit. I presume that means designated sites. Ditto the Cottonwood road, which can be sandy and is currently closed. Is that where you got stuck in sand?
Greenwater Valley road is popular for dispersed camping, as is the Harry Wade road. For both, people mostly camp within a mile or so of the pavement but options abound. Greenwater generally easier on 2WD in my experience, but both OK. On 190 east of the park there is a very large area known as Slab Camp which is outside the park and popular with the dirtbag camping crowd - you usually see some parties out there when you drive by.
RE: Question about camping - WayOutWest - 2023-02-08
(2023-02-08, 08:31 AM)John Morrow Wrote: For years I toured the SW with a Honda Civic. I empathize with your situation.
If you don't have this map, you need it.
https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/upload/508-Backcountry-and-Wilderness-Access-map_.pdf
You are correct, that options are limited.
Road 21 on the map is graded by the county known as "Furnace Creek" or Greenwater Road. Usually all vehicles have access. Small pullouts are evident. Saratoga Spring and Jubilee Pass area spurs can at times be passable. Sometimes I actually scouted on foot first when a road is incised single vehicle width so I had a turnaround option.
Saline Valley Rd to Lee Flat and Panamint Dunes (floods will incise the wash crossings until traffic smooths them out) too, can be OK
Emigrant Campground is free, small and tent only. Safe to leave camp set up and leave for the day. All campgrounds can be loud due to close tent footprints and lack of cover.
Conditions change but often times one can get past the one mile restriction zone on many of the roads on the map that are solid lines with the double line, "High Clearance 2WD". Keep from high centering by running the tires over the high rocks and berms.
Thanks for the link to the road descriptions! Great.
LOL, none of the unpaved roads as described are suitable for a 2WD non high clearance vehicle like mine.
Maybe I was more bold in the past, but I've driven several of them with a small Honda Accord, back in the day. I drove entirely through Titus Canyon, gone on Chloride City Road, Big Pine Road, Aguereberry point road, Wildrose to Mahogany camp, and in the past have camped on the first part Echo Canyon road before an obvious point where it became dramatically 4WD.
This list reminds me that of all the parks/recreation areas I've visited, I believe Death Valley's unpaved roads are most inaccessible to 2WD.
Thanks for mentioning Greenwater Road. I may check that out.
Good tip to avoid high centering.
RE: Question about camping - WayOutWest - 2023-02-08
(2023-02-08, 08:42 AM)MojaveGeek Wrote: Exploring DV with 2WD is fun, done it for years, some white knuckle moments, and as you know you have to drive with care and be prepared.Thanks for the tips. I don't know if I've ever been on Greenwater Road so that's good to check out.
I suspect you can find the status of the NPS campgrounds which take reservations at recreation.gov. The large one at SPW is not NPS, but they have a web site (shared with the hotel). There is also a small NPS campground there. Emigrant and Wildrose (higher, colder) are free and I think first come, first served. Emigrant can be noisy from the highwy.
For dispersed camping, both Hole in Wall and Echo Canyon roads, probably fine in the lower sections for 2wd (I've done it, don't know about conditions at the moment), now have a permit system. It is new, and I don't know how you get a permit. I presume that means designated sites. Ditto the Cottonwood road, which can be sandy and is currently closed. Is that where you got stuck in sand?
Greenwater Valley road is popular for dispersed camping, as is the Harry Wade road. For both, people mostly camp within a mile or so of the pavement but options abound. Greenwater generally easier on 2WD in my experience, but both OK. On 190 east of the park there is a very large area known as Slab Camp which is outside the park and popular with the dirtbag camping crowd - you usually see some parties out there when you drive by.
I think the one where I got stuck in sand was either Echo Canyon or Hole in the Wall...
The one where I got a flat tire was either southern West Side Road or Warm Springs Canyon road. I recall driving over a section completely covered with somewhat "river rock" type smooth but large rocks (eg not gravel, but fist-sized), no sand or earth, just rocks. I was quite concerned as I drove over this and not long after doing this I ended up with a flat. At that point I was driving a small 2WD Toyota pickup.
My current vehicle is a Ford Transit van, (made into camper van) which "could" have been a high clearance vehicle, if designed better, but unfortunately due to the design there are a few low spots w/ only 5-6 inch clearance. It's also an unpleasant drive on unpaved roads so I tend to prefer to not go too far off the pavement, except on smooth, well maintained dirt roads. Such as actually are found less often in the desert and more often in forest locales.
Interesting about "Slab Camp"---- I hadn't heard of that, may look into it. Any resemblance to Slab City down by the Salton Sea? However if people go there to party I'm not interested. My ideal campsite is quiet, with other adult nature lovers enjoying the peace and silence. I suppose there may be other options in various areas outside the park, but ideally I won't be having to drive outside the park to camp each day as this would not be as convenient as just staying near where I'd like to hike.
In the past, when needing to camp in a campground, I have found myself at StovePipe Wells more than the others. I guess I was drawn there instead of the ones close to Furnace Creek as I imagined there'd be fewer people, since Furnace Creek has more amenities and draws more people. I have not tried Emigrant Camp.
RE: Question about camping - DAW89446 - 2023-02-08
Eureka Valley, past the sand dunes campground, are numerous areas a 2WD can park a few yards off the road and set up camp on the east side of the dune field. A friend of mine with a 2WD Toyota Highlander did it about 20 years ago without traction or clearance issues. The road is two track and may have a high enough center to snag a sedan, but soft enough to be plowed by the car’s underbelly. Drive as far as you feel comfortable, the road gets sandier as you progress. The campground at the end of the bladed road is also among the least used.
Mesquite Spring below Scotty’s Castle is also among the less crowded improved camp sites that aren’t of the dirt parking lot style of those in the Furnace Creek / Stovepipe Wells area.
Oriental Wash, in the northern part of the park, leaves the park and the state. Esmeralda County, NV routinely blades the road freeway smooth starting in late March and early April, the CA side gets less love. Several scenic ghost towns, however the elevations here will be prohibitive in March due to snow.
Off of CA168 between Big Pine and Oasis and as you approach Oasis, North Eureka Valley Road heads south and t-bones into the Big Pine-Death Valley Road near the South Eureka Valley Road (to the sand dunes) junction. It gets annual maintenance but is often washed out at the confluence of Cucomungo Canyon. However, the first few miles in from CA168 travel through Joshua trees with piñon pine on the hillsides. The elevation is +/- 5,000 feet, so might be nippy. A few miles in there is a mill site with a nice, large and flat terrace with nice views east and up north through the Fish Lake Valley, that might make a nice camp.
There is another byway off of the North Eureka Valley road that is cherry stemmed through wilderness area that returns to the Big Pine-Death Valley Road at the end of the pavement on the west side of the valley, which my buddy traversed in his 2WD Highlander without issue (though I was guiding him in my 4x4 Tacoma), which has some scenic places. That byway is little known and seldom used. It is two-track all the way but firm with a few brief, shallow, wet weather water crossings and a mile long hard packed sandy stretch at the end.
You can also take North Eureka Valley Road north out of Eureka Valley as well. It’s signed and graded annually. Depending on the storms this winter, you might be able to travel its length to Oasis in Fish Lake Valley.
The afore mentioned Greenwater Valley road area is also nice. But your elevation, especially along the northern end, is well above 4,000 feet, so nights and mornings will be brisk.
I don’t keep a close eye on the road conditions any more since I don’t live in the area like I once did, so don’t know how well they’ve fared in the flash floods, winter storms since, and how much the park has repaired and improved them.
RE: Question about camping - Bluegreen kayak - 2023-02-08
I'll second DAW's comment about Mesquite Springs being very quiet; I've enjoyed my times camping there. I haven't heard that the road up there is open yet; that would be nice. I'll also add that the lower loop of Texas Springs is tents, and is usually fairly quiet due to the hills around it. I can usually get a spot before 1 pm, but I'll go earlier because there are ones I prefer. The upper loop is entirely different, easier to get into but basically a gravel parking lot. I'll be out there early March; if you see a white van with Nebraska plates, come say hi. I would be interested in what you've done to your van for camping.
Oh, and welcome to the forum!
RE: Question about camping - DeathValleyDazed - 2023-02-08
(2023-02-08, 12:29 AM)WayOutWest Wrote: I like to camp outside of standard campgrounds when possible, but I only have a 2WDUnless I missed it, Wild Rose Campground on the way to the Charcoal Kilns and Telescope Peak could be considered. Paved all the way and quiet. Not sure but there may be some rarely used side dirt roads along the way for dispersed camping?
Please post a trip report here upon your return. Welcome to this forum.
RE: Question about camping - DAW89446 - 2023-02-08
(2023-02-08, 11:39 AM)DeathValleyDazed Wrote:(2023-02-08, 12:29 AM)WayOutWest Wrote: I like to camp outside of standard campgrounds when possible, but I only have a 2WDUnless I missed it, Wild Rose Campground on the way to the Charcoal Kilns and Telescope Peak could be considered. Paved all the way and quiet. Not sure but there may be some rarely used side dirt roads along the way for dispersed camping?
Good suggestion, but dicey in early March when the OP is planning his trip.
RE: Question about camping - MojaveGeek - 2023-02-08
I have never slept at Slab Camp. It is really just a BIG slab. I don't know if people party but any camp area with others around might be subject to same. Emigrant has had noisy neighbors show up at 1 AM, for example. Slab is popular with dirtbag hikers and climbers, who tend to go to sleep early anyway, but who knows from day to day.
As for flats.... I got one on the paved Badwater road once
