Cottonwood Marble loop question

[Bluegreen kayak]

Hi all - my college age nephew is interested in doing the Cottonwood-Marble loop as a 3 day backpack in mid-March, along with a buddy of his. This would be beyond my abilities, especially if I tried to keep up with them, so they'll be on their own. My questions are whether the loop is open, where can I drop them off given I have a van that is neither HC nor 4WD, and any other considerations we should plan for? I have no worries about their physical abilities; Alex came to DV with me one year and we did a couple of single night backpacks; that kid can go most anywhere and carry any load. Thanks for y'all's help!

[TacoLand]

The road into Cottonwood Canyon from Stovepipe Wells is "typically only recommended for High Clearance 4 Wheel Drive Vehicles," per DVNP. They also mention that the road was impacted by flood damage, though conditions between now and mid-March will change (for better or for worse).

Personally I wouldn't mess with it in a van that is neither HC nor 4WD, which means your nephew and friend would need to hike in from just about Stovepipe Wells.

Having backpacked in that area my greatest concerns would be carrying / caching water for a multi-night trip, AND way-finding abilities for a remote backpacking loop. Definitely a completely different experience and set of problem-solving than an out-and-back overnight backpacking trip.

[Beardilocks]

If they're back-country experienced, they should have no issue with the hike.

You might be able to find someone to shuttle them in from Stovepipe, either ahead of time of while you're there. Hitching back out might be more difficult.

I know if I was around or even approached in SPWs I would give someone a lift back in there.

Possibly even contact the hotel and see if they would shuttle for a fee? Hard to say with any accuracy what they would say. I haven't met the new management yet.

[MojaveGeek]

I have driven to the big flat area just before the road drops into the Cottonwood / Marble wash in a sedan multiple times. The questionable part to me is how sandy the road is in the couple of miles after the airstrip. Yes of course the park says HC / 4WD but they say that about pretty much anything that isn't paved, except maybe 20 Mule Team A lot depends on how recently it was graded. If you were around SPW you could stop folks driving out and ask them. Probably would not be fun in something less than 5 inches clearance. Unless there is deep sand, 4WD is an over statement. (Just don't blame me if you go in and have trouble - evaluate your own risk tolerance).

Hotel shuttle? You must be dreaming That place is SO chaotic! But maybe one of the seasonal employees would be willing, for a few bucks. You could ask at the desk, and if you draw a blank, drive around behind the rooms and just walk toward Tucki into the employee housing area and ask around? A lot of the employees are pretty friendly if you take the time to talk with them.

[TacoLand]

Maybe not the best info to put on the internet .... when was the last time you drove a sedan to the big flat area? Was it in the last month? To me it doesn't seem like great stewardship to rag on the Park for making HC / 4WD either. Weren't you just sharing another story about a road you've driven a sedan on (20 years ago) that someone attempted in 2009 and their kid ended up dying?

God, I sound like my parents now. Getting old is a bitch.

I'm always cautious when recommending backcountry roads to people that don't seem experienced & somewhat confident. What are they supposed to do if they hit deep sand and bury their vehicle up to the axle? I mean, you don't know whether or not it's actually questionable until it's too late ... because up to that point everything was seemingly going fine.

In the case of Cottonwood if you get stuck you've now blocked a rather popular one-lane road with your vehicle. Hopefully the first people coming across you can help get you out somehow, because otherwise they're going to have to get around you by driving over a berm into protected desert – risking more stuck vehicles and needlessly impacting the land.

I'm also not personally familiar with any shuttle or help from the hotel getting back to the mouth of Cottonwood Canyon or the big, flat area before. If they've got extra time it wouldn't be the worst hike in & out, plus there's always a chance they can hitch a ride with someone on the road.

[MojaveGeek]

Taco, the problem is that if we simply rely on what the park service says, sometimes we are not getting realistic information. What do they say are 4WD / HC roads? Keane Wonder. Salt Creek. Aguereberry Point, Titus Canyon lower approach, Hole in the Wall (the whole thing, not just the part beyond the Hole). At the same time, there are other roads that are similarly marked that really do deserve it - Butte Valley, Trail Canyon, Lemoigne. What to believe? Do we just stick to the pavement? I think maybe the park service would prefer that. I long ago gave up trying to get real info from the visitor centers and ranger stations; even if you take the time to chat and show that you're not just a noob tourist, you don't get reliable info. This is especially a problem after major storm damage. Maybe the roads that are open have been recently graded and are in great shape? Sounds like HITW is as good as it gets right now. Or maybe they are way worse than any time I have driven them, with lasting storm damage or a nasty washout.

So where to turn? A forum like this perhaps? I would not say things on FB. I'm sure there are lurkers here but good luck to them, I know nothing about them. Bluegreen has been around the block a few times, should be able to take info and make an informed decision. Personally, I like honest info - I might take a recently graded road which I might not take otherwise, get it while you can.

Of course we are all responsible for our own safety, and I hope we travel appropriately. Last time I was out to Cottonwood was 10 months ago, but that is irrelevant after the floods. And the woman (sorry, as DAW pointed out, it was the mother, not the kid, who died) on the Owlhole Spring road made several mistakes which, together, were fatal. The first was going on a questionable road with no info at all. The second was not turning back after getting the first flat.

When I am out there, and someone asks me about a road, I usually take the time to try to figure out how skilled they are and how equipped. How much water are you carrying? If I get a blank stare, "That road is way to gnarly for your vehicle". If they say "gallons" I will say what I know.

So to all you lurkers out there... you probably don't want to drive Cottonwood without 4WD and lifted is helpful, maybe want lockers.

[DAW89446]

Oops ... the bottom one has already been done on the valley floor ... 

[Beardilocks]

Cmon now DAW.  None of those are even sedans. 

I actually met an ancient dude out on Cottonwood once years ago in an 80s Mazda on stock 11” rims.  He was absolutely piloting that thing like a surgeon and damn fast.  Talked to him for over an hour.  He was one of the guys that cut in the PCT in the 60s and they didn’t have the budget for 4wds and they had to get whatever they had possibly 100mi off the roads.  Very cool dude. 

Never over or underestimate anyone’s ability.  Both are deadly.  That’s the diplomatic way.  But it’s probably easier to assume everyone out here is completely clueless until proven otherwise.  That’s probably safer for all.

[DAW89446]

Growing up in the Mojave, my grandmother and I explored lots of trails in her '49 Chevy. Various VWs took us anywhere we wanted to go. And I used to blast lots of dirt roads in my '61 Caddy convertible.    

Basically, what I was conveying is what advertising makes people think they can do - go anywhere they please at breakneck speeds. Just add plastic cladding. In the hands of some, safety, reliability and environment be damned.

Even those who are careful and conscientious can run into trouble out there. The only time I ever used my Hi Lift jack I carried in my Tacoma TRD was on a stranded middle aged couple in a 1st gen Ford Explorer with a flat tire about five miles north of the turnoff to Racetrack Valley on the Big Pine-Death Valley road. They had a spare tire, but could not drop it down because they didn't have the crank handle. The one in my Tacoma fit and worked just fine. And the way the truck was parked the bottle jack didn't lift the axle enough to unload the weight off the flat tire.

Anyway, back to topic ...

[Daymoth]

Weve turned around on cottonwood road in a HC AWD because the sand was super deep. And turning around was quite an operation because the road is narrowish.

I think that road changes a lot. Sometimes it collects a san bank, sometimes the rain and wind move it away.