(2021-12-18, 08:20 PM)Candace66 Wrote: With regard to "known, established benchmarks", they were subject to surveying and mapping errors. Not to mention, vertical datums changing over the years.  Or, maybe I misunderstood what you meant by benchmarks?

There are some notable errors on the USGS topo maps where one or more contour lines are missing.  A great example is the Coxcomb Mountains range in California. There are three high points in close proximity.  And the 7.5' map shows the lowest of them as being the highest!  

Some of the surveying methods used since the late 1800s, namely Leveling Lines, are actually as accurate as modern systems. They use the same benchmark locations but their actual measurements (for the science of geodesy and the shape of the earth) are located at the same places decade after decade, which makes them very useful in my field of tectonics. This network of leveling lines forms part of the foundation of modern geodesy in the USA, and does not cover every single disc you find on a peak. Up until the last ~10-20 years topo maps were using the same elevation data that they'd been using for decades, and some of these are getting resurveyed and updated with time. Likely, the next edition of the Coxcomb 7.5' topo will have different measurements.

I brought up these benchmarks because their positions are extremely well constrained, usually within a few millimeters, by GPS measurements which can take 20 minutes to two hours or more. In lidar these can used as control points to make sure your data is spatially correct - i.e. fits to the world with the projection you want to use. I'm sure the folks doing this for peaks are more than capable of figuring out how to do it right!

Since it's been a few years, maybe I'll take a crack at Badwater again. There's a freeware called QGIS with which you can view and play with lidar data which you can download off the USGS National Map or OpenTopography, among others.

Well Whitney (I have not climbed) is a damn sight harder the Elbert (have been up), that's for sure! Some of the CO 14ers are really tough, probably out of my league, but most are (sometimes long) straightforward walkups, easily done in a single day, and those in the know are usually off the peak by 2 or so due to thunderstorm potential. But I've been up only a few, I think Candace has been up a bunch of them.

The 14ers are also incredibly popular On a weekend I would choose a nice 13er, because I prefer solitude (and almost no one seems to go for the 13ers!)

I guess it still continues …



From a Lone Pine business based webcam page.

(2021-12-25, 01:17 PM)DAW89446 Wrote: I guess it still continues …
From a Lone Pine business based webcam page.

Great shot you grabbed and posted. FYI, when I day hiked Mt Whitney (not technically correct because I started at 1:00 am. on a full moon evening and did not need a flashlight and wanted to return to carpark before dark) by the time I reached the west side of those needles there were several young expert climbers with their gear and ropes happily spread out climbing the faces of the needles visible in the distance from the main trail I was on. I felt lucky just to be able to get one foot in front of the other let along show off that technical expertise and stamina.

Dazed, did you summit Whitney? I'd love to do that. Probably beyond my pay grade at this point.

Gower, you are a wonderful resource on all things geologic!

(2021-12-26, 05:34 PM)MojaveGeek Wrote: Dazed, did you summit Whitney?  I'd love to do that.  Probably beyond my pay grade at this point.

Gower, you are a wonderful resource on all things geologic!

MG, yup, September 2013 I summited Mt Whitney and then golfed nine holes at the lowest gold course in the world within a 36 hour window and then published this corny video (I'm embarrassed at the quality of the video now but I was just getting started back then. LOL You may notice that I rarely if ever appear in my more recent videos as a service and favor to my viewers.) 

FYI, most folks with common sense don't day hike Whitney's summit, a 22 mile round trip hike, they take their time over a day or two and enjoy a slower experience. I actually departed The Whitney Portal at 01:00 hours in hope of scoring the sunrise from the summit but I was about a half hour too late. The views and experience were once in a lifetime and with the ability to see Telescope Peak from there was fun too. The one section of famous switchbacks about half way up seemed endless. LOL The altitude above 12K feet also slowed me down as my previous high was Wheeler Peak in Great Basin National Park at 13,065 feet. 

(2021-12-26, 06:01 PM)DeathValleyDazed Wrote: MG, yup, September 2013 I summited Mt Whitney and then golfed nine holes at the lowest gold course in the world within a 36 hour window

I'm curious what your score for those nine holes was after the Whitney summit. Better, or not as good as, your usual score?

(2021-12-26, 07:54 PM)Kauri Wrote: I'm curious what your score for those nine holes was after the Whitney summit. Better, or not as good as, your usual score?

Well Kauri, funny you ask because I just started creating a video story about this photo which I actually snapped during my recent ten day stay in DEVA that may answer your question? 
http://salamandersociety.com/deathvalley...ll-mud.png

(2021-12-26, 08:28 PM)DeathValleyDazed Wrote:

(2021-12-26, 07:54 PM)Kauri Wrote: I'm curious what your score for those nine holes was after the Whitney summit. Better, or not as good as, your usual score?

Well Kauri, funny you ask because I just started creating a video story about this photo which I actually snapped during my recent ten day stay in DEVA that may answer your question? 
http://salamandersociety.com/deathvalley...ll-mud.png

Let me guess the story... Just over 8 years later you finally found the golf ball you lost on a bad shot?   
Not to side-track the thread any more than I already have, but I have many happy childhood memories from vacations to Carmel of finding golf balls folks had lost on the hillsides below the Pebble Beach golf course. One year I was incredibly lucky and found a (very nice, but quite weathered) golf club someone must have thrown in frustration off the cliff.

(2021-12-26, 08:41 PM)Kauri Wrote: Let me guess the story... Just over 8 years later you finally found the golf ball you lost on a bad shot?   
Not to side-track the thread any more than I already have, but I have many happy childhood memories from vacations to Carmel of finding golf balls folks had lost on the hillsides below the Pebble Beach golf course. One year I was incredibly lucky and found a (very nice, but quite weathered) golf club someone must have thrown in frustration off the cliff.

Now there you go again, Kauri, always one step ahead of me in DEVA!    You're not too far off the mark. 

I share fond memories of Pebble Beach as well, except mine was having a lovely horse back ride out of the stables there on our honeymoon to Carmel back in the day before Clint Eastwood was the mayor.