Yeah – and I'm going to crib majorly from Beardilocks’ comment here – as I've gotten older and interacted with more and more humans I've come to the personal conclusion that it's probably best to assume everyone out there is completely clueless until proven otherwise. Saying that not to be judgmental or mean, nor do I think I'm better than anyone (as I've narrowly escaped self-inflicted death once or twice), but because it is definitely safer for all until proven otherwise.

And, to be clear, my ramblings are coming from an emotional and philosophical place, and are not meant as a takedown of anyone on this forum. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

As someone who has notoriously gotten very stuck in remote wilderness, I have to agree that people don't often have great judgement even with lots of experience. At least DV doesn't have lions or angry elephants to escape from.

(2024-01-13, 12:46 PM)netllama Wrote: As someone who has notoriously gotten very stuck in remote wilderness, I have to agree that people don't often have great judgement even with lots of experience. At least DV doesn't have lions or angry elephants to escape from.

Yes you have some good stories there. And Millers Tow was a long ways away from where you tried to get that Toyota (?) to nose dive.

I took a rest from the internet for a day, and what a discussion I missed! Thank you everyone for your inputs. I suppose I could rent a jeep for the day, drop off the boys, and then explore some places I've never contemplated before due to vehicle constraints. Is it difficult to learn to drive a jeep?

Do hikers usually go in on Marble and out through Cottonwood, or the other way around? Can it be done in two days instead of three, so one doesn't have to haul as much water? I'm guessing they would need three gallons each at a minimum for three days, and they'd have to be careful with it.

If this isn't workable, is there any other 2/3 day hike that you would recommend? They're both in good shape and comfortable with the outdoors, but they are young. I want them to have a grand adventure without any ER visits or more gray hairs for me.

(2024-01-13, 06:41 PM)Bluegreen kayak Wrote: I suppose I could rent a jeep for the day, drop off the boys, and then explore some places I've never contemplated before due to vehicle constraints. Is it difficult to learn to drive a jeep?

Farabee Rentals & Tours | Death Valley and Colorado! (farabeejeeps.com)

A Jeep Wrangler is no more difficult to drive than any other vehicle. I couldn't find any info on if Farabee's equip their Jeeps with automatic transmission or manual, but I'd think they're automatics. As for shifting the transfer case (2WD, 4WD Hi and 4WD Lo) I'm sure staff will give pointers before sending you on your way. And their website list Cottonwood/Marble as one of their recommended trails.

Yes, you could rent a jeep. Farrabees isn't cheap, but they are in good condition, and they are used to people who don't ordinarily drive them and will tell you what you need to know. They also give you a SPOT device and you can call them for help with it. Driving to the mouth of Cottonwood in a jeep would be pretty straightforward. Talk to them about sand though, and how to get into 4WD. Beyond that, the road gets pretty rough after the confluence of Marble and Cottonwood, but my info on that is 2 years old and who knows after the storm. But you could park at the end of the better road (the big flat area) and walk in to the "gates" of Cottonwood where there are petros. As you walk that road if you look on your left in the first few hundred yards you can see some big rocks full of fossils. A friend rented from Farrabees once and they were very professional and helpful, give you a cooler with water, etc. You could also drive up Echo, that's not a really demanding jeep road, and the Inyo mine is nice. You can drive to the end and walk an old RR grade though probably not all the way to the Amargosa view (former winch station) in between driving over to Cottonwood and then back. So yes, that's a good possibility if you can afford it.

Now for a less positive response, it is crazy to say "I want to hike the cottonwood loop" and then have to ask about water sources. That should be part of the decision as to whether to do that hike. They should research the hike, figure out water supply issues, mileages, elevation gain, and then decide whether they want to do it or not, and also how many days they want to take. I suspect you'll find that there are water sources (there are springs pretty far up Cottonwood, and there was a town at Goldfield, but I haven't been on the whole loop. This also raises the question, do they have back country navigation skills? There is no trail in the portions of that hike which are not in the canyons - though it is used so heavily there *may* be use trails.

A gallon per PERSON per day is a good amount of water, if it is not overly hot.

Indian Pass Canyon might be a nice overnight. I believe there are springs there (but don't take my word for it). I'd love to get there but I think it is just a bit out of my range for a long day hike.

(2024-01-13, 09:18 PM)MojaveGeek Wrote: … and there was a town at Goldfield, …

Gold Belt, some times printed in the contemporary press as Goldbelt. Among the original locators were Shorty Harris and Joe Simpson, who would later be lynched at Skidoo.

Thanks, DAW. Yes, Goldfield is elsewhere, my bad. I think I've seen a rock in Marble Canyon with a carved sign for Gold Belt?

Do you know the story behind the lynching?

Yes, Farrabee's jeeps are auto.

(2024-01-14, 08:56 PM)MojaveGeek Wrote: Do you know the story behind the lynching?

Yes. I've done years of research into it. The life, death and aftermath of Joe Simpson is a complex and lengthy story. Much published history is based on legend and sensationalism.

(2024-01-14, 08:56 PM)MojaveGeek Wrote: Thanks, DAW.  Yes, Goldfield is elsewhere, my bad.  I think I've seen a rock in Marble Canyon with a carved sign for Gold Belt?

If I remember correctly, there's a rock inscription carved by passersby in the early 1900s. The auto club also had signs in the area.

Forum member Ski3pins wrote up a good description with photos of their 2016 venture in the canyon at:

Explorations with the Ski3pins: Chasing History - Death Valley - Spring Break 2016 - Part Three