Panamintcity

[VintageDUG]

I've been able to get into his site, without any password for a long time now.

[CottonballMarsh]

From my understanding from NPS, trailhound is correct. 
I’m not sure why Steve doesn’t have an account on here to clarify this stuff when it comes up.

He's always been into all the drama, and wanting lots of attention for everything.

I've known Steve for over 15 years now, and I'm aware based on email conversations with him that it's in part because of the drama that he's been avoiding a lot of public forums. I know it's easy for things to be miscommunicated and misunderstood, and TBH I've noticed that seems to happen a lot around Steve's reports and videos, so I reached out to Steve to ask if there's anything he'd like me to quote and post here for him.

He has created the drama.  Avoiding the forums is just him creating more drama.  He seemingly loves to draw attention to himself, both in his presence online, and then his absence.  If he simply acted like a normal human and just left everything alone, none of this drama would have happened.  But he couldn't resist promoting & hyping up his trip reports, and then taking it all away when he decided his own promotional activities had opened pandora's box. 
He might have the best of intentions, but the reality is that his behavior has caused everything that has happened, and he continues to poke the bear.

Alongside Hiking Death Valley, Steve's website was one of the best resources available for hikers. His work has inspired countless people, myself included, and it's disappointing to see this sense of entitlement in suggesting that he "owes" anyone something.

This forum has generally been such a positive and encouraging space, so it's disheartening to see people criticizing Steve simply because he chose to take down his website. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times, and he’s always been incredibly friendly and deeply passionate about Death Valley. To suggest that he removed the site "for drama" feels like an unfair and unkind assumption—and honestly, beneath the respectful discourse I’ve come to appreciate here.

Facebook might be the place where people tear each other down (which is why I usually avoid it), but here, we should celebrate those who care about Death Valley and who have contributed so much to the hiking community. There is nothing wrong with him not engaging with every forum especially if he's being met with hostility like this. 

I also agree with Daymouth that the videos aren't quite my thing. I definitely prefer the old trip reports, but I also get wanting to change up the medium after so many years and so many trip reports. Thankfully we get to choose what content works for us! It's fantastic having the panamintcity as an option again.

[netllama]

Alongside Hiking Death Valley, Steve's website was one of the best resources available for hikers. His work has inspired countless people, myself included, and it's disappointing to see this sense of entitlement in suggesting that he "owes" anyone something.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Steve owes them anything. However, internet etiquette is that if you release information, it remains available indefinitely. You don't take it away later. Steve was pretty naive around this fact, and its caused a lot of friction.

Its great that you found Steve's website to be such a great inspiration and aid. Please keep in mind that not everyone feels that way.

This forum has generally been such a positive and encouraging space, so it's disheartening to see people criticizing Steve simply because he chose to take down his website. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times, and he’s always been incredibly friendly and deeply passionate about Death Valley. To suggest that he removed the site "for drama" feels like an unfair and unkind assumption—and honestly, beneath the respectful discourse I’ve come to appreciate here.

Steve is great in person. No one is disputing that. But his online persona is not the same as what he's like in person. I do not see anything disrespectful about people sharing their views here. A diversity of views makes for healthy debate. No one is being abusive in their feedback. Note that Steve chose to withdraw from public forums. That doesn't mean that others cannot carry on a discourse about his behavior.

[Daymoth]

Cottonball what do you mean "simply because he chose to take his website down"? It was not simply.

He gave us inspiration and resources and then completely pulled the rug from beneath us. I was completely gutted. It was the heights of the pandemic and I had no idea he was shutting down and didnt get to make a copy of his website I heavily relied on. And he made sure to not allow any public archives. He promised pdfs and books were coming and so many of us volunteered to help him with them or by hosting the website but he just made excuses. I doubt he had any intention for that to ever happen.

And then he went on to make youtube videos of places that he was gatekeeping and telling others not to share.

No he didnt owe us anything and yes he is a super nice guy but killing the website sure as hell was hurtful and unnecessary and I get to criticize that.

And make no mistake, he didnt intend for the trip reports to be accessible to us.

Thank you to the Jims and Kauris and Stavs and others that still continue to inspire me and show me these magical places. And thank you internet glitches...

[CottonballMarsh]

Cottonball what do you mean "simply because he chose to take his website down"? It was not simply.
He gave us inspiration and resources and then completely pulled the rug from beneath us. I was completely gutted.  It was the heights of the pandemic and I had no idea he was shutting down and didnt get to make a copy of his website I heavily relied on. And he made sure to not allow any public archives. He promised pdfs and books were coming and so many of us volunteered to help him with them or by hosting the website but he just made excuses. I doubt he had any intention for that to ever happen.
And then he went on to make youtube videos of places that he was gatekeeping and telling others not to share.
No he didnt owe us anything and yes he is a super nice guy but killing the website sure as hell was hurtful and unnecessary and I get to criticize that.
And make no mistake, he didnt intend for the trip reports to be accessible to us.
Thank you to the Jims and Kauris and Stavs and others that still continue to inspire me and show me these magical places. And thank you internet glitches...

I think we may have different perspectives on this, and that’s okay. From what I recall (and it's been awhile so I could be wrong), Steve did communicate on several platforms that he intended to take the website down, and he had that information labeled on the site for some time before actually following through. While I understand the frustration, I don’t believe that once something is online, it must remain there and that a creator can choose to remove it—especially when it is a completely free resource and notice was provided.

I’m truly sorry to hear that you found the removal so hurtful. It’s good for me to understand that others may have experienced its loss more deeply than I did. That said, whether or not the decision was "unnecessary" isn’t for us to judge—Steve had his reasons, and I believe they should be respected.

My original comment was primarily directed at the suggestion that Steve took the site down "for drama." I think it’s entirely valid to share feelings about the website's disappearance, and I appreciate you expressing yours, even if they don’t align with mine. There’s definitely a broader, worthwhile conversation to be had about gatekeeping and what information should or shouldn’t be shared. I’ve always admired that Steve avoided sharing the locations of sensitive natural and cultural resources, though I haven’t watched his videos to know if that has changed. 

Where I take issue is with pointed, personal remarks that feel unproductive to the larger conversation. It’s one thing to critique decisions; it’s another to make assumptions about intent or character. That is what led to my initial comment.

[VintageDUG]

Even if there wasn't a backdoor into his site, what it published on Al Gore's internet is almost always forever with sites like the WayBack Machine.  I use it often for research on old sites that have disappeared or been update to remove some content I want to see.  The best way to keep something off of the internet is to never put it there.

[Daymoth]

DUG the website was explicitely excluded from wayback and other public mirrors when it was removed, as far as I know.

Cottonball I completely agree that a creator has all the right to remove their content. But people have a right to be hurt by that decision. And I get your point about the personal remarks and assumptions on intent or character. But its hard not to do in this circumstance. As far as I know Steve never tried to even give an explanation. Not that we were owed one, but again, people also dont have to be happy about it. Anyways, I understand and appreciate your point.

[VintageDUG]

DUG the website was explicitely excluded from wayback and other public mirrors when it was removed, as far as I know.

Cottonball I completely agree that a creator has all the right to remove their content. But people have a right to be hurt by that decision. And I get your point about the personal remarks and assumptions on intent or character. But its hard not to do in this circumstance. As far as I know Steve never tried to even give an explanation. Not that we were owed one, but again, people also dont have to be happy about it. Anyways, I understand and appreciate your point.

I haven't bothered to look for it on WayBack because of the backdoor.  And if he finds a way to lock it down tighter, I have a copy, so no biggie.