(2022-08-06, 04:28 PM)TacoLand Wrote:

(2022-08-06, 02:31 PM)Beardilocks Wrote: My biggest worry is that they will just close and gate off any damaged dirt roads.  So few are left in the park at this point...

Having trouble coming up with any roads off the top of my head that have been permanently closed in the last 20 years in DVNP, despite numerous instances of catastrophic flash flooding (incl. destroying Scotty's Castle and Grapevine Canyon).

Whenever I see such a claim, the person making it can't provide any examples. Some roads were closed back in 1994 or so, due to the California Desert Conservation Act and the establishment of Wilderness areas. I dunno what has been closed by authorities since then.

BTW, the 2015 flood definitely did not "destroy" Scotty's castle. The castle itself wasn't damaged at all. There was some damage to other buildings in the area.

Beardilocks, have you actually driven every unpaved road in the Park?

(2022-08-16, 01:42 PM)Candace66 Wrote: Some roads were closed back in 1994 or so, due to the California Desert Conservation Act and the establishment of Wilderness areas. I dunno what has been closed by authorities since then.

Surprise Canyon was closed in 2001, but that wasn't because it was damaged in a flood. And there really wasn't a road in Surprise Canyon anymore by then either. Much of that was BLM land as well.

Certainly some minor spur roads have degraded quite a bit over the years and haven't been regraded - but they haven't been closed.

So yeah, my recollection matches yours. Very little has been closed since 1994. The park doesn't just arbitrarily close roads.

I wasn't making any claims per se.  Over the past 5yrs or so I have had conversations with Rangers in the park where they suggested that some roads would not be repaired if they were damaged, Trail canyon being specifically named.  No evidence, just hearsay and scuttlebutt.

I have driven *nearly* every unpaved road in the park.  Exceptions include a few of the more challenging passes that my old truck wasn't up to at the time (Dedeckera, Lippincott, Mengel, Lee Narrows, but I hiked/biked most of them), parts of the NV triangle, a few of the smaller trails in the Nelson Range.  Oh and I've done some but not all of the canyons on the West slope of the Panamints.

I wasn't suggesting arbitrary closures, but more catastrophic damage from the flood and an unwillingness to repair.

Many roads in the park are already not repaired by the park. Steele and Lippincott both get no repair from the park or the county. When damaged it is user groups that repair them. Bat Rock to the springs is also only maintained by users. The park or county only regrade certain roads. It’s been that way for a couple of decades and it works out fine.

Frankly I’ve been very disappointed that Inyo started regrading Saline Valley a few years back. Due to some debate over who was responsible for grading it didn’t get graded for a number of years. Saline Valley was an absolute delight during those years. Wall to wall yahoos making mad dashes to the springs 24/7 these days…

(2022-08-17, 01:04 PM)DVexile Wrote: Frankly I’ve been very disappointed that Inyo started regrading Saline Valley a few years back.  Due to some debate over who was responsible for grading it didn’t get graded for a number of years.  Saline Valley was an absolute delight during those years.  Wall to wall yahoos making mad dashes to the springs 24/7 these days…

I agree.  There was enough of a traffic increase from the larger and larger 4WD clubs that we seem to get coming through.  I will never understand doing peaceful backroads in a group of 30 trucks.

Update from CalTrans:

"ATTN DRIVERS: Caltrans District 9 has delayed the reopening of State Route 190 through Death Valley National Park. Crews are still working to clear the highway and shore up the shoulders following severe flash flooding earlier this month. Caltrans is working with Death Valley officials to determine a new reopening date, which we will post to our social media channels once it has been decided."

(2022-08-18, 02:28 PM)Beardilocks Wrote: Update from CalTrans:

"ATTN DRIVERS: Caltrans District 9 has delayed the reopening of State Route 190 through Death Valley National Park. Crews are still working to clear the highway and shore up the shoulders following severe flash flooding earlier this month. Caltrans is working with Death Valley officials to determine a new reopening date, which we will post to our social media channels once it has been decided."

Can't say that I'm surprised. In the past week there were a few people on a different forum who were very convinced that the entire park would be back to normal by the end of September. I thought they were insane and unrealistic.

New update from NPS:

https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/news/popu...Yq1jPhxZbA


"DEATH VALLEY, Calif. – Death Valley National Park's most popular sites will reopen to the public on Saturday, Aug. 20 – just two weeks after a historic flood unleashed massive, record-setting rainfall and caused millions of dollars in damage to roads and facilities. Several park roads remain closed so visitors should plan ahead and not rely on GPS. 

"We're eager to welcome summer visitors back to Death Valley's most popular sites, but at the same time, we want to caution folks that many roads in the park will remain closed for months during repair work," said Mike Reynolds, park superintendent. "I’m thankful for our work crews and Caltrans partners who have worked tirelessly to reopen popular sites to visitors. It’s an opportune time to visit the park and witness firsthand the dramatic impacts of a 1,000-year flood event.”

Maintenance crews from the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) have been working to reopen State Route 190, the main thoroughfare through the park. The National Park Service (NPS) is responsible for most other roads within the park and has been working to clear them to make them safe for the public. 

Visitors will only be able to access the park via State Route 190 and Panamint Valley Road. All other paved roads including Badwater Road from CA-178, all access roads via NV-374 (Beatty Cutoff and Daylight Pass), and North Highway/Scotty’s Castle road will remain closed for repairs. 

All roads into and through the park were closed to the public on Friday, Aug. 5 due to severe flooding. The park, which has approximately 1,400 miles of roads, including 200 miles of paved roadways, was affected by debris, shoulder road loss, undercutting, and pavement loss. Workers assessed 600 miles of roads, and 200 miles are deemed impassable. Park officials say there are still 800 more miles of road left to assess. 

Caltrans, NPS and Inyo County spent the last two weeks conducting damage assessments, making critical repairs, and clearing tons of debris and dirt from roadways. 

The park is vast. At about 3.4 million acres, it is almost the size of Connecticut. NPS officials advise when visitors return to the park, they should exercise extreme caution and respect closures.

Some of the park's most popular sites will reopen to visitors this weekend including: Furnace Creek Visitor Center, Badwater Basin (open only from State Route 190 but closed south of Badwater at mile marker 17), Golden Canyon, Artist Drive, Devils Golf Course, Natural Bridge, Zabriskie Point, Dantes View, Mesquite Sand Dunes, Twenty Mule Canyon, and Harmony Borax Works.

Other attractions will remain closed indefinitely and some park roads may remain closed for days to months, depending on the severity of the damage, NPS officials say.

Motorists should also expect temporary delays and lower speed limits when traveling throughout the park. They may encounter one way traffic control stops and limited shoulder parking. They should also watch for loose gravel on the road that may impact windshields and tires.

Backcountry roads are still being assessed and the park does not have information about conditions in many areas. The public should be aware of hazardous conditions, including missing shoulders, steep drop-offs, and impassable areas on backcountry roads. Backcountry travel in Death Valley requires proper equipment (including a high-clearance vehicle and rugged, backcountry tires), careful planning, and experience with extreme heat and harsh desert conditions. 

According to the National Weather Service, temperatures in Death Valley over the weekend are forecast to be around 115° F (46°C). The NPS encourages park visitors to stay safe in the summer by not hiking at low elevations after 10 a.m., staying within a short walk of air conditioning, drinking plenty of water, and eating salty snacks.

On Aug. 15, the U.S. Department of Transportation's Federal Highway Administration announced a release of $11.7 million in emergency federal funding to repair damaged roads. These funds will support recovery in both Death Valley and Mojave National Preserve. This initial funding will help offset the substantial costs incurred during the first stages of what park rangers say is possibly the most widespread catastrophic event in the park's history. As officials continue to assess the damage, they predict that the recovery effort will not only be lengthy, but pricey as well with costs expected to rise by the tens of millions. "

(2022-08-18, 02:36 PM)netllama Wrote: In the past week there were a few people on a different forum who were very convinced that the entire park would be back to normal by the end of September.  I thought they were insane and unrealistic.

Agreed.  I'm impressed that they'll have as much open as soon as they're saying.  But CalTrans is responsible for 190.  The rest of the park will have to be cleared with way less resources.  That will definitely take months.

Interesting to read the part of the release above about backcountry roads.  Pretty much exactly what you all predicted.  I'd be interested to see whether or not the gate is open to the West Side Road from Badwater Rd.  I'm guessing not.

If anyone comes across trip reports from anyone into the backcountry I'd be interested in the link to check it out.

Cheers.

West Side road is one that I believe they have gated in the past, even if it was passable to a good 4WD vehicle, until they got the whole length regraded. Someone correct me if my memory is wrong on that!

I think this is because it is so long and so easy to access that many people with inappropriate vehicles would try it and get stuck. Would take too many resources to keep rescuing folks so they just gate it until is repaired. In the past West Side Road has usually been repaired fairly quickly as it is often only washed out in one or two places and is a high priority road to get fixed.

The decision to open it or not this time might also depend on getting Badwater Road open past Badwater. I can’t recall a time that West Side was open but Badwater Road closed. Again, my memory is imperfect though!

I don't know what current practice is, but IIRC they used to close the West Side Rd during the hottest part of the summer - presumably to keep ill-equipped visitors from going out there and getting into trouble in the extreme heat. I imagine there are plenty of people who would drive that road, but not think about other, rougher roads, like Echo Canyon, that are also in the area and on maps.