Echo Canyon

[David_Bricker]

(Not related to the Echo Canyon road, but maybe the knowledgable folks here can chime in with info for future reference for both of us: With sand, I know that airing down tires can help prevent getting stuck, and using traction boards can help get you unstuck. Does the same hold for deep gravel?)

Deep sand and deep gravel are similar, but different.  How's that for being concise :-)

From my experience, both lend themselves to airing down, at least at normal speeds.  There is the idea of a sand tire, aired up pretty high, that will allow you to "float" on top of the sand.  This works quite effectively, but we're also talking speeds of some significance.  Sand tires are very different in tread design (virtually none) and shape (rounded profile, no sharp edges).

For normal Death Valley stuff, air down and above all, maintain momentum.  In sand, once you stop, you will have a hard time getting started.  Gravel is slightly more forgiving, in that sometimes, you can "dig" your way out with application of power.  The coarseness of the gravel, combined with an All-Terrain or Mud-Terrain tire tread, allows you to catch the edges of the gravel, and move forward.  Sand is typically so fine that it will shift around the tire, not allowing it to climb out of the hole.  The sharper edges of normal tires can't float, but instead cut into the sand.

Traction boards don't have to be those fancy, pricey things you see on expedition vehicles. They can be simple 4' sections of 3/4" plywood, or even tree branches. a 2' x 2' piece of 3/4" plywood is also really handy to have for a jack base.

Dry lake bed silt/sand is the worst.  I recall a time I came across someone stuck at the edge of a lake bed.  The person should have never been there.  By the time I arrived, he had buried his fully loaded F-150 past the centerline of the rear wheels; the rear bumper was not visible, and he was completely hung up on the frame.  I tried winching him from the road, but it just dragged my Jeep.  Three hours later, we had dug ramps in front of the rear wheels (going backwards was entirely impossible), dug ramps in front of the front wheels.  I knew I had one opportunity.  I hooked a snatch strap to the front of his rig, and had about 15' of slack.  It was not a pretty pull out, but I got him out.  I was 4wd, locked front and rear, and spun all the way back to the road, with the F-150, also 4wd "helping".  The worst part is if he had stopped before he buried it, I could have easily winched him out from the rear.

David Bricker / SYR

[Kauri]

Deep sand and deep gravel are similar, but different.  How's that for being concise :-)

From my experience, both lend themselves to airing down, at least at normal speeds.  There is the idea of a sand tire, aired up pretty high, that will allow you to "float" on top of the sand.  This works quite effectively, but we're also talking speeds of some significance.  Sand tires are very different in tread design (virtually none) and shape (rounded profile, no sharp edges).

For normal Death Valley stuff, air down and above all, maintain momentum.  In sand, once you stop, you will have a hard time getting started.  Gravel is slightly more forgiving, in that sometimes, you can "dig" your way out with application of power.  The coarseness of the gravel, combined with an All-Terrain or Mud-Terrain tire tread, allows you to catch the edges of the gravel, and move forward.  Sand is typically so fine that it will shift around the tire, not allowing it to climb out of the hole.  The sharper edges of normal tires can't float, but instead cut into the sand.

Traction boards don't have to be those fancy, pricey things you see on expedition vehicles. They can be simple 4' sections of 3/4" plywood, or even tree branches. a 2' x 2' piece of 3/4" plywood is also really handy to have for a jack base.

Dry lake bed silt/sand is the worst.  I recall a time I came across someone stuck at the edge of a lake bed.  The person should have never been there.  By the time I arrived, he had buried his fully loaded F-150 past the centerline of the rear wheels; the rear bumper was not visible, and he was completely hung up on the frame.  I tried winching him from the road, but it just dragged my Jeep.  Three hours later, we had dug ramps in front of the rear wheels (going backwards was entirely impossible), dug ramps in front of the front wheels.  I knew I had one opportunity.  I hooked a snatch strap to the front of his rig, and had about 15' of slack.  It was not a pretty pull out, but I got him out.  I was 4wd, locked front and rear, and spun all the way back to the road, with the F-150, also 4wd "helping".  The worst part is if he had stopped before he buried it, I could have easily winched him out from the rear.

David Bricker / SYR

Awesome, THANK YOU for the info and advice!!

[MojaveGeek]

LOL! If I ever get stuck out there, David, I'll be hoping you're the guy who drives by
But no off road lake beds for me!

[DAW89446]

1) that's not the spot with the cool old stuff DAW mentions - despite the name there's really nothing there.

I have photos on ghosttowns.com from my visit to the Schwab townsite in 2000. But for some reason can’t copy the actual page link. So I’ll just paste in my photos instead.









Author/publisher Alan Patera and author Alan Henscher and I visited the site and found the remains of what appeared to be a main street up on a flat but downhill shelf above the main wash on the northern side of the canyon. We found wood lined cellars on both sides of the “street”, stone abutments indicating that some of the tent structures hung off the edge and were supported from below. We found metal bits and pieces, purple glass, tin cans. About a quarter mile from the shelf, we found other remains of stone dwellings, as well as a “grave” of a Death Valley “victim”. The cross was made of wood, well weathered; but a wooden cross with its origin during Schwab’s active months would have been reduced to sawdust long ago from weathering. I’ve not come across any deaths at Schwab, nor is there any known cemetery. It just didn’t last very long.

The topo map spells Schwab incorrectly, all contemporary newspapers I’ve read, as well as the documents for the townsite filing at the courthouse in Independence spells it as Schwab.

[TacoLand]

Great run down by David on sand versus gravel. I was always taught that if you ever start spinning – and don't have momentum – then you need to STOP, get out, and think.

Playa + water = the stuff of nightmares ... never been stuck, but seen plenty of folks spin their way straight down to the frame.

And I've never used traction boards before, but pine boughs in the snow and sagebrush/scrub in the high desert have worked in a bind.

[David_Bricker]

Thanks, guys. I'm not expert by any means, but I've seen quite a few examples of what not to do. Tacoland nailed it - once you start spinning, stop. Think about the effort to extract yourself, and how much worse you'll make it if you continue to spin. Once you can't move, you're going to need some form of assistance. That assistance is a lot easier to get if you're not already buried to the frame.

One time I was in the situation of stuck. We were wheeling in Moab. My son was spotting me, and tried to get me on a 3" ledge with the rear tire. I didn't quite make it, and the Jeep spun 90 degrees to the hill instantly. The upper tires came off the ground briefly, and I fully expected to roll it (I am fully caged). Instead of trying anything else, I called for an anchor from another Jeep, so I could winch out.

Could I have made it out myself, and been a hero, with 20 people watching me? Maybe. But my glass and body work is still intact, because I didn't care if anyone thought less of me to take a hook in that case. Turns out, no one thought less of me taking the hook to get out of a precarious position.

Just because I have a very well built rig doesn't mean I can't get into a situation that I can't extract myself from alone. Same applies to anyone, regardless of equipment. Know your limitations, and don't' push them. This applies to Jeeping, hiking, pretty much anything, particularly if we're alone.

David Bricker / SYR

[MojaveGeek]

OK, just to be clear, DAW, is that the location marked Schwaub (site) on the topo? Looking at the views, I am guessing it is. And if so you've got more patience for finding stuff on the ground than I, and what I said earlier is incorrect. I admit I was more interested in making it to Winters Peak and seeing nothing standing I guess we didn't look very hard.

[GowerGulch42]

Speaking of Schwaub, we accidentally found ourselves there while looking for something else last year! Looks exactly the same. I've heard there's a grave there somewhere, but we never found it.

[DAW89446]

OK, just to be clear, DAW, is that the location marked Schwaub (site) on the topo?  Looking at the views, I am guessing it is.  And if so you've got more patience for finding stuff on the ground than I, and what I said earlier is incorrect.  I admit I was more interested in making it to Winters Peak and seeing nothing standing I guess we didn't look very  hard.

Yes, it is. It’s about midway on the old road up that branch of Echo Canyon, between where it used to branch off the current road and the one coming over from the Inyo Mine. The canyon opens up into a wide area where several canyons converge; and what I think was one of the main streets is toward the northwest side of the wide area.

However, the others and myself found cans, stone tent floorboard supports, rotted lumber and glass all throughout the wide area. The wood lined cellars and large stone abutments were found on the shelf only. We didn’t go to any of the visible mines on the hillside, except one at wash level on the south east side of the wide area near where the old road made its way down from the current road going over to Amargosa Valley.

We were there in May, 2000. We stayed only about an hour at the site, for Alan Patera was getting a heat migraine headache (it was only in the 80s, but he is from the Portland area and wasn’t used to such temps yet), Alan Henscher was wearing only flip-flops and stayed around where the old road entered the confluence.

We didn’t expect to find much at Schwab, given its very brief life and the fact that it didn’t progress beyond the tent camp stage, with possibly one or two wood cabins.

---

Speaking of Schwaub, we accidentally found ourselves there while looking for something else last year! Looks exactly the same. I've heard there's a grave there somewhere, but we never found it.

I stumbled upon it on the way down along the old, closed road. It was right where the old road entered a wide area where several canyons converge and on the eastern side of that wide open area. It was a simple wooden cross engraved with “Death Valley Victim - 1907.” Likely created by a visitor in the last 50 or so years from pieces of scrap wood, which are found throughout the wide open area.

[DeathValleyDazed]

BTW, that description that DV Dazed posted is the whole route, up and over the ridge behind the mine and down to the Amargosa Valley.  That is not a route to take without a serious vehicle.

 
Agreed and thanks for pointing that out. I actually drove a Farabee Jeep Rental from the Amargosa side up and over the Echo Canyon pass. There is a solid rock huge step only short wheel base can usually conquer going up (west to east) that I was not aware of (dumb me not doing due diligence on research). It was late and I did not have enough gas to retreat all the way back to Beatty, NV so I took the chance to nose that jeep over the step and somehow managed not to scratch or dent it even though I heard a scrap underneath. I was greatly relieved. I had heaps of water but running out of gas out there would not have been fun. I made it back to Furnace Creek with some gas to spare and in time to turn the jeep before having to pay for another day. I don't enjoy technical jeep routes but do them if necessary to access the goal points.