(2023-03-05, 06:46 PM)MojaveGeek Wrote: [ -> ]Ha, I was just wondering EXACTLY the same question, about the parking, thinking specifically about Echo and Hole in Wall (Slit Canyon). I was thinking "Well I should put a note on the dash that says I am hiking and not camping and not park in a designated spot, if they are so marked..." The answer you got is absurd, of course. These are "no camping" not "no parking" areas. And if they are really meant to be "no parking" then, well better not post expletives here but it seems that closing off those portions of the park to day use is a major impact which required public comment periods.
But you did camp one night with a permit, it sounds like? How as that to get? If you need to be at the SPW ranger "station" during the few hours of the day in which that is open, well good luck with that.
Those canyons off the Cottonwood road do see canyoneering but I suspect Slit Canyon is where this tension will play out, as it is in Michel's book and for all I know probably on Alltrails too.
How was the Cottonwood Road? HC OK, or is there deep sand maybe needing 4WD.
I emailed into NPS to try to get the scoop on what EXACTLY the new rules are. It’s always possible I got the confusing combination of Warning-happy Ranger on the road (you don’t need to be a LEO to handle those out, they give a pile of them to the campground hosts as well) and a Ranger in the booth that just hasn’t been filled in on the new rules. God knows they’re not great about training visitors center folks and this is a new system.
Yes, camped one night with a permit in Cottonwood. Did a night on Echo last month as well. Permit was easy to get. They have the master list in Furnace but the SPW Ranger will phone them to see what’s available and to secure you a permit to any of the 3 permit areas. That part of the system works well.
I was advised that if I wanted to hike the benches around Echo I would have to park either at the pavement or all the way up past all the sites. Which is also BS.
Cottonwood Rd is the best condition I’ve ever found it. You could likely get in almost anything but I’d want either AWD or high clearance. There’s a rutted mud pit by the airport and the sand is pretty tame but could grab an inexperienced 2wd driver. And that could already be different. Heavy winds yesterday after we got out could have already filled it in.
Interesting, just few weeks ago the ranger I spoke was like "cotonwood road is awful im not taking my subaru there, big sand trap at the start".
I still havent been up there and I so want to explore some. Ill call them again end of the week before we head out.
I find it both hilarious and infuriating the whole permit system and I cant believe they are giving tickets for day use.....
Re Echo and HitW, I thought the designated sites were fairkly spread out so you can still park in between for day use/backpacking?
(2023-03-05, 07:43 PM)Daymoth Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting, just few weeks ago the ranger I spoke was like "cotonwood road is awful im not taking my subaru there, big sand trap at the start".
I still havent been up there and I so want to explore some. Ill call them again end of the week before we head out.
Cottonwood was closed till recently. I suspect it was recently graded, so not surprised it is in great shape. Once I was out there, up in Marble Canyon, coming out, we were going to be late to meet my friend's wife at SPW, no way to communicate, we were going to be way late... but when we got up to that parking area, it had been graded and we just zoomed out much faster than we'd gone in (we had a jeep on that ride).
And yet, I've seen sand streaming into the roadway on windy days...
So it's getting pretty tedious with Echo and H in W if you have to drive past the last designated site to be legal... I mean I could appreciate not parking in a designated site for a day hike but that's nuts.
There's two spots just before the Hole that are sweet spots to camp but also great to park for the Slit. I wonder if they are now designated. I bet there is no way for us mere mortals to find out.
As far as I know the last site in Hole in the Wall is actually IN the hole. Lol. It’s completely idiotic. To camp in the gap.
We were just as confused about the placement of sites in Cottonwood. All the great old site have been abandoned. The new sites are in the worst danger of floods. Idiotic.
(2023-03-05, 08:43 PM)DAW89446 Wrote: [ -> ]Beardilocks Wrote:This wire was laying across the wash as we walked up. I'm guess maybe the old telegraph line or from Skidoo? Or a support wire?
I I believe you are correct. The loops gave it away for me. They are used to hold the wire to the insulator. What a cool find!
[size=medium]![[Image: daw89446-albums-misc--picture62466-ae16e...fcc2b.jpeg]](https://www.toyota-4runner.org/members/daw89446-albums-misc--picture62466-ae16e8b4-487c-489a-b69a-36dd1a9fcc2b.jpeg)
Ah cool! Thanks! We almost tripped over it. It was shin high in a wash and if you didn’t see it you’d have been laid out flat.
(2023-03-05, 08:19 PM)MojaveGeek Wrote: [ -> ] (2023-03-05, 07:43 PM)Daymoth Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting, just few weeks ago the ranger I spoke was like "cotonwood road is awful im not taking my subaru there, big sand trap at the start".
I still havent been up there and I so want to explore some. Ill call them again end of the week before we head out.
Cottonwood was closed till recently. I suspect it was recently graded, so not surprised it is in great shape. Once I was out there, up in Marble Canyon, coming out, we were going to be late to meet my friend's wife at SPW, no way to communicate, we were going to be way late... but when we got up to that parking area, it had been graded and we just zoomed out much faster than we'd gone in (we had a jeep on that ride).
And yet, I've seen sand streaming into the roadway on windy days...
So it's getting pretty tedious with Echo and H in W if you have to drive past the last designated site to be legal... I mean I could appreciate not parking in a designated site for a day hike but that's nuts.
There's two spots just before the Hole that are sweet spots to camp but also great to park for the Slit. I wonder if they are now designated. I bet there is no way for us mere mortals to find out.
This was right after they opened it, i suspect the wind might have emptied the sand bank since then.
Somebody posted the gps locations of the designated spots here, see if it works
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer...6.765&z=12
Are you doing the slit next week? Might bump into you, its on my to do list.
Edit: jesus not joking about the campsite IN the hole. Lets put a truck in the middle of a nice geologic feature for everyone to enjoy! The fuck....pardon my french....
(2023-03-05, 09:25 PM)Daymoth Wrote: [ -> ]Somebody posted the gps locations of the designated spots here, see if it works
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer...6.765&z=12
Are you doing the slit next week? Might bump into you, its on my to do list.
That map is excellent info, thanks for posting it! Looks like it is going to be pretty hard to park for a dayhike any place in lower echo without being accused by picky LEO of poaching a camp site. At least with the map one can pick a place that is not a site, but that won't keep you from getting a notice I bet. I was looking at at least one hike in there not sure what will happen now. I'm almost never around FC during normal operating hours to try to go argue about it either.
As for the Hole, my favorite spot to park for the Slit or Widowmaker Falls is just before the Hole, where the road following the wash takes a sharp left, there is a very sweet small pullout into the wash there - I would camp there if I were camping, before the designated sites. Now? Is it safe to park there? Or is it better to park just beyond the Hole where there's some flat areas, if hiking toward the Slit. Dunno.
Will we go there? I don't know. I have not been in 17 years and it's nice and don't need a great vehicle to get there, so it is on my short list. But the list has 20+ hikes for 10 days
Everything depends on the weather, and what my companions feel like doing. If I go I want to bypass the high fall after the Slit and go beyond the narrows immediately above it.
As for the advice you got about Cottonwood... it may or may not have been correct at the time. I find it extremely hard to get solid answers out of the staff there. I used to take a few minutes to chat them up so they realized I was not some yahoo on his first visit to the place, but pretty much got stonewalled with, basically, if it ain't paved it ain't suitable for a sedan. Except once the senior guy who was at the desk in FC made a phone call, said they were not going to using the shooting range above Calf Creek, so we could walk the road to Nevares Spring... and when we got there they started shooting
I got really really chewed out by a ranger at SPW once when asking about the condition of the road (Death Valley Rd?) up to the Eureka Dunes - I had my young daughter and she thought I should be arrested for even thinking about going there with a kid. All I wanted to know was whether conditions were normal or washed out. And once in Panamint Valley I met a seasonal volunteer, who worked the info desk at FC, and she knew really nothing at all about PV - thought the old limestone quarry on the Nadeau Rd was the gold mine, etc. I've pretty much given up taking the time to stop except to visit the NHA gift shop.
Initial response from NPS per parking on permitted roads posted below. To be clear I was NOT in a campsite. I was over 3 MILES from the nearest campsite. Jesus help me. I did respond asking them to please confirm that there are ZERO new parking restrictions on these roads.
“Thank you so much for submitting your concern about the warning you received. After asking some of my coworkers about the situation, we have come up with a few things. First, ranger *** is a non-commissioned unit who was tasked with patrolling the roads and checking that people have permits for the dispersed camping sites along the road. Our guess is that you were parked in one of the dispersed camping sites that someone reserved, and you weren't aware of it.
We really appreciate that you parked legally, and a good amount of space off the road. Things are a bit different now with the permitted dispersed camping sites off that road. I encourage you to connect with someone at the visitor center before your trips to find a good spot for you to park that isn't accidentally in one of the campsites.
I apologize for the confusion, and I hope this email answers some of your questions. Feel free to reach out via email or call one of the phone numbers listed in my email signature for further clarification, if needed. Thanks for visiting Death Valley and respecting our beautiful resource!”
Hahahaha this is so absurd!